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alanjlamore
11-03-2004, 05:12 PM
I recently moved in upstairs from my parents, with my wife and daughter to save up money to be able to put a large down payment on a house (so he has some leverage in arguments ;) )

Anyway, when he noticed me taking my protein supplement we got into a discussion about how I'm eating and how hard it is for me to get enough protein in a day. Well, he went on about how he wished I would look at sites like webMD and see what they say about how too much protein causes kidney problems, possibly cancer and so on...

He thinks I get all my info from scam artists that have hidden agendas for supplement companies (I was able to come back with how it's recomended that we use whole foods as much as possible to get our protein...)

Well I finaly looked up what he was talking about on sites like webmd and others and I see almost all of the referances they use were 15-20 years ago, and the most recent one being about 10 years ago.

My father seems to think that no new information could possibly come out in the last 10-20 years (he's very stone headed and very right wing conservative).

Well, my point is although it's frustrating without having more recent referances commited to memory, I know many things have changed in the last decade or so.

Would anyone be able to list some strong referances about protein intake for athletes or anyone working out strenuously with weights? I didn't want to try and weed out all of the referances from the ebook to see wich ones would refer to protein.

Thanks inadvance (even just for reading this as it also serves as a way for me to vent a little :rolleyes: )

WillBrink
11-03-2004, 05:50 PM
I recently moved in upstairs from my parents, with my wife and daughter to save up money to be able to put a large down payment on a house (so he has some leverage in arguments ;) )

Anyway, when he noticed me taking my protein supplement we got into a discussion about how I'm eating and how hard it is for me to get enough protein in a day. Well, he went on about how he wished I would look at sites like webMD and see what they say about how too much protein causes kidney problems, possibly cancer and so on...

He thinks I get all my info from scam artists that have hidden agendas for supplement companies (I was able to come back with how it's recomended that we use whole foods as much as possible to get our protein...)

Well I finaly looked up what he was talking about on sites like webmd and others and I see almost all of the referances they use were 15-20 years ago, and the most recent one being about 10 years ago.

My father seems to think that no new information could possibly come out in the last 10-20 years (he's very stone headed and very right wing conservative).

Well, my point is although it's frustrating without having more recent referances commited to memory, I know many things have changed in the last decade or so.

Would anyone be able to list some strong referances about protein intake for athletes or anyone working out strenuously with weights? I didn't want to try and weed out all of the referances from the ebook to see wich ones would refer to protein.

Thanks inadvance (even just for reading this as it also serves as a way for me to vent a little :rolleyes: )

Well for one thing, he has it backwards.In science circles, anything past 10 years old is ignored in favor of the newest research. Using 20 year old studies to uphold a scientific position, is almsot unheard of in legit science. That's not to say they are all worthless, but that's the general position

Two, the very first side bar in the ebook covers that exact topic with reent studies. Why not print that out?

Three, probably the best review paper on the issue is:

Proc Nutr Soc 1999 May;58(2):403-13

Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet.

Millward DJ

Centre for Nutrition and Food Safety, School of Biological Sciences,
University of Surrey, Guildford, UK. [email protected]

For protein, progress is slow in defining quantifiable indicators of
adequacy other than balance and growth. As far as current requirements are
concerned, only
in the case of infants and children is there any case for revision, and
this change is to lower values. Such intakes would appear to be safe when
consumed as
milk formula. In pregnancy, notwithstanding the concern that deficiency may
influence programming of disease in later life, there is little evidence of
any
increased need, and some evidence that increased intakes would pose a risk.
For the elderly there is no evidence of an increased requirement or of
benefit from
increased intakes, except possibly for bone health. For adults, while we
now know much more about metabolic adaptation to varying intakes, there
would
appear to be no case for a change in current recommendations. As far as
risks and benefits of high intakes are concerned, there is now only a weak
case for
risk for renal function. For bone health the established views of risk of
high protein intakes are not supported by newly-emerging data, with benefit
indicated
in the elderly. There is also circumstantial evidence for benefit on blood
pressure and stroke mortality. With athletes there is little evidence of
benefit of
increased intakes in terms of performance, with older literature suggesting
an adverse influence. Thus, given that a safe upper limit is currently
defined as twice
the reference nutrient intake, and that for individuals with high energy
requirements this value (1.5 g/kg per d) is easily exceeded, there is a
case for revising
the definition of a safe upper limit.

alanjlamore
11-03-2004, 05:52 PM
Thanks Will. I'll look at that first side bar again when I get home (I'm at work now). I knew I'd get some strong solid studies on the topic...

Thanks again,
Alan

elissalowe
11-03-2004, 06:25 PM
Well, why not start with the "classics": the research by Peter Lemon indicating higher protein requirements for athletes?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9841962&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9356767

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7380688

Needless to state Alan, you will never win this argument - you might as well save your breath for the gym. All the references in the world won't be enough, because this isn't really a debate about nutrition. Older parents frequently have a difficult time treating their adult children as adults - and your dad has now found a way to push your buttons so he can prove to himself (and you) that he's still in charge. The best response in this situation is a firm M.Y.O.B. - you're grateful for his concern, but you've done the research and concluded that this is the best course for you. You don't have anything to prove. And if he continues to needle you about this, simply hand him a copy of the e-book (print one out, if you haven't already done so) and change the subject. Let him put in the work to try to refute it.

Been there, done that with my in-laws. It's irritating as hell, but somebody has to be the grown-up in these situations...

WillBrink
11-03-2004, 06:29 PM
Thanks Will. I'll look at that first side bar again when I get home (I'm at work now). I knew I'd get some strong solid studies on the topic...

Thanks again,
Alan

You never read the side bar??? Also read:

http://www.brinkzone.com/protein.html

That covers all of it acually.

alanjlamore
11-03-2004, 06:40 PM
I must have read it, but it's been a while. Would probably do me some good to read through the whole ebook again.

I have more ammo now with that brinkzone article. Now I just have to present it in a way that doesn't get my father too upset so we can still stay in the house for only $50 /month. LOL :)

ray2nite
11-04-2004, 04:35 PM
I believe elissalowe is correct about older parents. They are obstinate. (Just ask my son.) I donít think you are going to win this no matter how much evidence you show him. My advice: be a politician. Agree with him and when he catches you consuming the extra protein, tell him you are not as intelligent or as self-disciplined as he is, and so, canít help yourself. But you are trying; you just need time.

erp7e
11-04-2004, 05:33 PM
If it makes you feel any better, my dad thinks lifting makes you "muscle-bound." Even though I'm more flexible than him. I think it's a generational thing. People born before roughly the mid-60's often saw weight training as a "freak" or "cult" thing.

The current crop of pro bodybuilders doesn't do much to dispell that myth, but the millions of recreational and pro athletes who have benefited from strength training do. The same goes for diet. They were brainwashed for years that protein and fat were evil. Old views die hard for some.

alanjlamore
11-04-2004, 05:53 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone. I just noticed that I haven't been getting the emails for the responses here. I'll check my user CP again, but I think it might have to do with the renovations here.

As for my father, I know he's going to believe what he's going to believe, and fortunately we can see things differently and still get along, I just get real frustrated when people are so sure of something that isn't true.

Even today my 4'10" 160lb mother was telling me how it's easier to lose weight in the winter 'cause you burn more calories when your body tries to keep warm (I'm sure that more than makes up for the general lack of activity during the winter (sarcasm)) and how there are less germs in the air when it's cold so there's no relation to colder weather and people getting sick (my daughter and 2 nephews are all sick).

Anyway, enough venting. At least my mother did lose about 30-40lbs on Atkins, and understands that she needs to workout as well, she just says that she doesn't have time yet, but plans to join a gym within the month...My dad will never understand 'cause he doesn't put fat on easily at all and is fine with his current thin shape, the only water (or liquid in general) he gets if from the 5-7 cups of tea everyday and loves his pastas and white breads...

Okay, seriously, enough venting now. ;)

alanjlamore
11-04-2004, 06:03 PM
Oh yea, nevermind about not getting the emails. I am, it's just that my MSN messanger isn't notifying me. The emails were there when I opened my hotmail.