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WillBrink
12-13-2004, 03:57 PM
Ok, so I kept hearing how the movie Donnie Darko was a cult classic, so I rented it. Well done, compelling, and creepy. But, what is the message of this movie? I could not figure out what any of it was trying to say, what the message was. The ending made no sense either. Did he go back in time and alter the future so he could die happy? And if his dying altered the future, then why did Frank save him in the first place from getting splatted by the jet engine? None of it made much sense. I fail to see how it makes cult classic status honestly. Someone explain it all to me please. I love weird cerebral movies, but this one seems to tried too hard.

Ord Mandrell
12-13-2004, 04:54 PM
Interesting point.

I just loved the 80's style of the movie (kinda made me feel like a teenager all over again).
My take on the movie was that Donnie lived in a non-real unreality after the engine failed to kill him. Its almost as if, fate screwed up and, after realising its error, pressed the rewind button to make sure that Donnie DID get killed like he was supposed to. Donnie's expereince in this altered state of reality was also odd (you know - the weird bunny rabbit guy).

In the end though, I think the movie was meant to confound the viewer.

WillBrink
12-13-2004, 05:07 PM
Interesting point.

I just loved the 80's style of the movie (kinda made me feel like a teenager all over again).
My take on the movie was that Donnie lived in a non-real unreality after the engine failed to kill him. Its almost as if, fate screwed up and, after realising its error, pressed the rewind button to make sure that Donnie DID get killed like he was supposed to. Donnie's expereince in this altered state of reality was also odd (you know - the weird bunny rabbit guy).

In the end though, I think the movie was meant to confound the viewer.

Confound the viewer it did. Just seemed to me it confounded the viewer for the sake of counding the viewer to be cool vs a movie that really attempted to be cerbral, e.g. Blade Runner, American Beauty, etc.

Ord Mandrell
12-13-2004, 08:36 PM
Confound the viewer it did. Just seemed to me it confounded the viewer for the sake of counding the viewer to be cool vs a movie that really attempted to be cerbral, e.g. Blade Runner, American Beauty, etc.

Your assesment of the movie is probably accurate. While the film was enjoyable in and of itself, it didn't have that ooh! ahh! factor that Blade Runner or Dark City had (sci-fi noir films kick ass). The really good movies are the ones where you're talking about the themes and issues they raise as you're leaving the theatre and way into the night. Who can forget the sheer scale of the original Star Wars movie. Wasn't everybody talking about the nature of reality after seeing the Matrix. Didn't American Beauty make American's (and non-American's for that matter) feel that their lives were bleak and meaningless.

Donnie Darko is good, but it ain't THAT good.

Simon
12-13-2004, 10:50 PM
I don't think there was one single message , it was not a film trying to send out a message. The ending made sence, 2 things will really help you with this movie. One the official website use google that will help you also there is a great site I used which filled in the gaps or you get the exetneded extras DVD which has a copy of the book the old women wrote which really helps fill in some gaps .

I have to say I that it was the very end that confused me as well, you will need to some research of your own, but let me clear it up as I remember it. Your y off base about him going back in the future, nobody goes back in time , this is not a past and present time travel film, basically, once the plane crashes into his roof, the first time, it creates the tangent universe, then everything from then on is in a tangent universe, all the people in the tangent universe are what they call the 'manipulated' you can read about that in the book excerpt, and the primary universe carries on running with all the same players, he knows he must close the tanget universe which is basically like a trip in the universe, I don't know if he controls the manipulated or whether the tangent universe controls them to help him but basically from the 2nd the aircraft rips the fabric of the universe open form then on he has to try and sort it back out , the manipulated (who are the tangent universe versions of the real universe people) are there to help him. Only way to then close the aboration is to then get the engine back into his bedroom, so he has to sacrifife himself to acheive that by being in same place etc.

That's basically as I remember it. There are some great sites out there about donnie darko, if your really interested I will track them down, I admit I had to do some research after that one finshed, that and Mullholland drive both had me reaching for the laptop.




I didn't think it tried to hard I thought it was bloody fantastic, sci fi, horror, drama, fantasy all in one. Superb stuff IMO

WillBrink
12-13-2004, 10:57 PM
Your assesment of the movie is probably accurate. While the film was enjoyable in and of itself, it didn't have that ooh! ahh! factor that Blade Runner or Dark City had (sci-fi noir films kick ass). The really good movies are the ones where you're talking about the themes and issues they raise as you're leaving the theatre and way into the night. Who can forget the sheer scale of the original Star Wars movie. Wasn't everybody talking about the nature of reality after seeing the Matrix. Didn't American Beauty make American's (and non-American's for that matter) feel that their lives were bleak and meaningless.

Donnie Darko is good, but it ain't THAT good.

That's pretty much what I was saying. It's a decent film, but it has big cult classic following, which I don't think it deserves. Actually, I think many of the X Files were better. Damn I miss that show.

WillBrink
12-13-2004, 11:00 PM
I don't think there was one single message , it was not a film trying to send out a message. The ending made sence, 2 things will really help you with this movie. One the official website use google that will help you also there is a great site I used which filled in the gaps or you get the exetneded extras DVD which has a copy of the book the old women wrote which really helps fill in some gaps .

I have to say I that it was the very end that confused me as well, you will need to some research of your own, but let me clear it up as I remember it. Your y off base about him going back in the future, nobody goes back in time , this is not a past and present time travel film, basically, once the plane crashes into his roof, the first time, it creates the tangent universe, then everything from then on is in a tangent universe, all the people in the tangent universe are what they call the 'manipulated' you can read about that in the book excerpt, and the primary universe carries on running with all the same players, he knows he must close the tanget universe which is basically like a trip in the universe, I don't know if he controls the manipulated or whether the tangent universe controls them to help him but basically from the 2nd the aircraft rips the fabric of the universe open form then on he has to try and sort it back out , the manipulated (who are the tangent universe versions of the real universe people) are there to help him. Only way to then close the aboration is to then get the engine back into his bedroom, so he has to sacrifife himself to acheive that by being in same place etc.

That's basically as I remember it. There are some great sites out there about donnie darko, if your really interested I will track them down, I admit I had to do some research after that one finshed, that and Mullholland drive both had me reaching for the laptop.




I didn't think it tried to hard I thought it was bloody fantastic, sci fi, horror, drama, fantasy all in one. Superb stuff IMO

If I have to do research to undertand a movie, hell with it!

WillBrink
12-13-2004, 11:08 PM
Your assesment of the movie is probably accurate. While the film was enjoyable in and of itself, it didn't have that ooh! ahh! factor that Blade Runner or Dark City had (sci-fi noir films kick ass). The really good movies are the ones where you're talking about the themes and issues they raise as you're leaving the theatre and way into the night. Who can forget the sheer scale of the original Star Wars movie. Wasn't everybody talking about the nature of reality after seeing the Matrix. Didn't American Beauty make American's (and non-American's for that matter) feel that their lives were bleak and meaningless.

Donnie Darko is good, but it ain't THAT good.

Speaking of Blade Runner, which may be my all time favorite movie, most people don't realize he didn't get all the skin jobs. One was left. I'm pretty sure they leave a major hint as to who that is. Anyone else ever pick that up? Ever read the book? It was called "do robots dream of electric sheep?" I recall.

Ord Mandrell
12-14-2004, 12:09 PM
Hey Will.

The book is by Philip K. Dick (no giggling) and its called 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep'.

The movie seems to imply that Deckard himself is the last replicant. However, there are a series of Blade Runner books by KW Jeter which are pretty good and they go on to explain that (a) there is another replicant (b) it ain't Deckard and (c) if Deckard doesn't catch it, he'll wind up dead coz everyone thinks its him.

p.s. The books were authorised by the estate of Philip K. Dick and KW Jeter used quite a few of his original notes to craft his stories. They're pretty good.

WillBrink
12-14-2004, 04:00 PM
Hey Will.

The book is by Philip K. Dick (no giggling) and its called 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep'.

The movie seems to imply that Deckard himself is the last replicant. However, there are a series of Blade Runner books by KW Jeter which are pretty good and they go on to explain that (a) there is another replicant (b) it ain't Deckard and (c) if Deckard doesn't catch it, he'll wind up dead coz everyone thinks its him.

p.s. The books were authorised by the estate of Philip K. Dick and KW Jeter used quite a few of his original notes to craft his stories. They're pretty good.

To me, the movie didn't imply Deckard himself was the last one, but it seemed clear to me it was the short cop plsyed by James Almose (spell?). The origami left in front of his door he found as he was running off with her was the tip off.

Ord Mandrell
12-14-2004, 04:13 PM
Interesting take on things.

Edward James Olmos was the actor who played the pizza-faced cop by the way (he's playing Commander Adama in the new Battlestar Galactical series on Sci-Fi - god I'm such a geek).
The way I took it was that he was on to Deckard and he wanted Deckart to know it. The origami swan was meant as a warning to tell him to get outta town while he still had the chance.

Simon
12-14-2004, 04:20 PM
I'm really enjoying the new BSG series. Took a while to hot up but it's pretty good tv now.

Simon
12-14-2004, 04:20 PM
Was also enjoying The 4400, was really getting into it only to find out it finishes next week only been on for like 5 damm episodes.

WillBrink
12-14-2004, 04:22 PM
Interesting take on things.

Edward James Olmos was the actor who played the pizza-faced cop by the way (he's playing Commander Adama in the new Battlestar Galactical series on Sci-Fi - god I'm such a geek).
The way I took it was that he was on to Deckard and he wanted Deckart to know it. The origami swan was meant as a warning to tell him to get outta town while he still had the chance.


Hard to tell, but the expression on Deckards face and reaction to the origami was one of "ah ha" and a puzzle being solved vs a "i better get the hell out of here cause they are onto me" reaction. Either is possible I suppose.

WillBrink
12-14-2004, 04:26 PM
I'm really enjoying the new BSG series. Took a while to hot up but it's pretty good tv now.

I have never seen it adverstised in the US, so I can't join you. I should have seen it by now. There is such a total lack og good sci fi on TV. The new Star Trek is much better then the prior spin offs, but Next Generation it aint. Still better than nothing for Trek fans. There was actually a show out of Canada that was very Blade Runner-ish that I liked, but that's gone also. I miss X Files and Angel big time!

Simon
12-14-2004, 04:30 PM
Bring back Angel campaign agreed. BSG started very slowly but I'm glad I stuck in there it's now really hotting up.

You seen THE 4400, I think that is superb, really top notch and if you like X Files it's a really good substitite, they are apparently filming 13 new episodes in march 2005. I loved the first 4, I have the last one to watch next week.

WillBrink
12-14-2004, 04:32 PM
Hey Will.

The book is by Philip K. Dick (no giggling) and its called 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep'.

The movie seems to imply that Deckard himself is the last replicant. However, there are a series of Blade Runner books by KW Jeter which are pretty good and they go on to explain that (a) there is another replicant (b) it ain't Deckard and (c) if Deckard doesn't catch it, he'll wind up dead coz everyone thinks its him.

p.s. The books were authorised by the estate of Philip K. Dick and KW Jeter used quite a few of his original notes to craft his stories. They're pretty good.

I will look into those books asap as I am always looking for good sci fi. Speaking of which, have you read anything by Peter Hamilton? Everything he does is good, but his Reality Disfunction series is awsome, a true sci fi Classic ala Dune series. Highly recommended. Of course anything by Larry Niven, in particular the Ring World series, is a must read, but as a sci fi fan you probably already know that.

Ord Mandrell
12-14-2004, 07:11 PM
Thanks for the book recommendations.
I've heard of Larry Niven but I've never really read anything of his.
I'm currently 'reading' all of my books at the gym during my workout. No, I'm not actually reading (that would severely impact my intensity), what I'm doing is downloading books from Audible.com to my PalmOne Treo and listening to them during my Cardio. I'm currently listening to the Robert Jordan 'Wheel Of Time' series. They're not bad but almost every fantasy novel I've readin the last couple of years seems like a Tolkien rip-off.

Oh! By the way. The two books by KW Jeter are called 'The Edge of Human' and 'Replicant Night'. I never really liked KW Jeter's writing style (he wrote a couple of Star Wars novel I thought sucked) but I think he did a pretty good job on these.

ray2nite
12-15-2004, 12:37 AM
I have read the original book by Dick. The movie -- Blade Runner -- did not bear much resemblance to the book. I read two books by Jeter (I donít know if there were more.). They were follow-ups to the movie, not to Dickís book. I thought the first one was pretty good but I didnít care as much for the second one, which followed up on his first book.

I canít remember this too well but some years ago I saw an interview of Ridley Scott where he talked about making Blade Runner. He never admitted that there was another replicant but did say that there were continuity errors (as he called them) due to budget restraints. He had to drop a lot of plans he had for Blade Runner for that reason. So, in essence, the movie was not what he wanted or, at least what he planned on making.

By the way: how many recognize the unicorns in Deckardís dream? Any one remember Legend with Tom Cruise?