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elissalowe
06-26-2005, 12:05 AM
The hubby found this one: it's a "fat acceptance" blog

http://www.bigfatblog.com/

Quicksilver
06-26-2005, 12:36 AM
You do have to admire how the discussion has been reframed from a health issue to discrimination of the overweight/obese. However, the simple fact is that our society (specifically the insurers and employers) can no longer afford to pay for treating "lifestyle" diseases brought through a lifetime of poor nutrition, lack of exercise and cigarette smoking.

Here's an example:

Taking a cigarette break outside a General Motors (GM) assembly plant in Lansing, Mich., last week, Mike O'Driscoll admits he has problems: diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol.

But his arteries are cleaned out, thanks to a $160,000 heart-bypass surgery a few years back.

"I ate too many steaks and not enough veggies," says O'Driscoll with a laugh.

For as long as O'Driscoll has worked at GM, he hasn't had to worry about health care costs. He paid nothing for his heart surgery, and he estimates that during the past five years, he has paid his cardiologist a total of $500. GM doesn't take anything out of his paycheck for health insurance.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-06-22-gm-healthcare-usat_x.htm

That was from an article about the health insurance mortgage for workers and retirees, which is one of the things (in addition to crappy cars), that is crushing GM. I'm normally not terribly sympathetic to the plight of large corporations - they generally have only a dim awareness of what constitutes corporate social responsibility - but in this case, should GM be on the hook for a bypass and a bunch of expensive drugs because someone can't stop smoking and eat his vegetables?

People should have the right to be fat if it suits them, and we have an obligation to be tolerant. But I think it stretches tolerance to prohibit the rest of us to from speaking out about the health issues because it isn't "fat positive".

For the record, I was there at one time- topping out at 257 (BMI of 32) in 2001, and now am around 210 (BMI around 26 - almost in the normal range, and I'm still working on it. I'm much more satisfied with the body I have now.

WillBrink
06-26-2005, 02:46 PM
The hubby found this one: it's a "fat acceptance" blog

http://www.bigfatblog.com/

There is an entire news group dedicated to fat acceptance. I believe it's misc.fat.acceptance or something like that. As you might expect. being a non moderated news group it gets trolled quite a bit.

elissalowe
06-26-2005, 03:52 PM
No doubt...I didn't check the "comments" on this one, nor do I intend to leave any - being a "troll" is a waste of time and energy. But it's hard not to be stunned by the level of denial exhibited in a post entitled: "Fat: Good for Heart Surgery," or one that debunks the new Food Pyramid for "cloaking dieting under the 'healthy eating' umbrella" based on the average calorie recommendations of 2200 calories for an active woman and 2800 calories for an active man - which the author insists are the energy needs of a 77 lbs. woman and a 110 lbs. man, respectively! Apparently, the auto industry also discriminates against fat people by not automatically offering seatbelt extenders!

I certainly don't believe that overweight people should face discrimination in employment, etc. Furthermore, I loathe the media's promotion of excessive thinness as an ideal - it's insidious at best and destructive at worst. But moving to the other extreme, and embracing a limiting, unhealthy condition and insisting that society conform to it is hardly a solution.

WillBrink
06-26-2005, 06:01 PM
No doubt...I didn't check the "comments" on this one, nor do I intend to leave any - being a "troll" is a waste of time and energy. But it's hard not to be stunned by the level of denial exhibited


I have come to realize that there is no stronger emotion then denial in humans. It's most people's chief emotional state that prevents them from achieving many of their goals.

erp7e
06-26-2005, 10:10 PM
There are some things we can't control in life, but our body weight is not one of them. The few things we can control, how we control them has an enormous impact on health and quality of life, even mood. In this respect, I try not to judge these people, but merely understand that a lot of their dire consequences are of their own doing. If they wish to point the finger back at us, that's their business, but it won't change their unhappy and unhealthy lives.

elissalowe
10-30-2005, 03:00 PM
More on "fat politics": http://www.slate.com/id/2128999/

It boggles my mind to read lines like this:

"Sufferers trade coping strategies for an endless variety of daily humiliations or share the longing for less impeded livesólike just being able to get an airplane seatbelt around your waist without a humiliating extension. Such admissions can also prompt heated responses from the more defiantly fat and proud: Doesn't wanting to lose weight mean giving into self-hatred?"

I don't comprehend how anyone could view a desire for self-improvement as "self-hatred." Wierd. :confused:

splifford969
10-31-2005, 07:17 AM
You know, as I am learning more and more about nutrition and exercise, I am coming to realize more and more that obesity is a choice...granted, one that people often make out of being misinformed and apathetic, but, seriously, I am reminded of my son's mother, my ex-fiancee, saying of weight watchers, "I had tried everything else, and finally something worked.", haha, she hadn't tried anything else...unless you count the "hostess cupcake diet", and it worked because she stuck with it...and now, low and behold, she's not really sticking with it, and it's not really working. That's ok, I'm raising my son right, he'll know his fresh fruits and veggies and good sources of protein. But, seriously, how do people that sit on their asses all day and eat ho ho's and ding dong's get off with blaming everyone else for them being obese? It seriously boggles my mind :(

elissalowe
10-31-2005, 12:19 PM
You know, as I am learning more and more about nutrition and exercise, I am coming to realize more and more that obesity is a choice...granted, one that people often make out of being misinformed and apathetic, but, seriously, I am reminded of my son's mother, my ex-fiancee, saying of weight watchers, "I had tried everything else, and finally something worked.", haha, she hadn't tried anything else...unless you count the "hostess cupcake diet", and it worked because she stuck with it...and now, low and behold, she's not really sticking with it, and it's not really working. That's ok, I'm raising my son right, he'll know his fresh fruits and veggies and good sources of protein. But, seriously, how do people that sit on their asses all day and eat ho ho's and ding dong's get off with blaming everyone else for them being obese? It seriously boggles my mind :(
For most, it is a choice. Sure, genetics plays a role - but "Mother Nature" never intended for human beings to have such an abundance of "unfoods" or be this inactive.

One of the big issues with these people is their insistence that there's no direct relationship between being overweight and developing health problems - and anyone who says different is biased: "weightist" attitudes (like mine!) are the last bastion of culturally-approved bigotry. Ok - I'll play along and assume for the moment that this is true, and that there is no objective evidence that being obese - in and of itself - is a risk factor for degenerative disease. But a lot of these people simply can't move! Their max speed is something like 2 mph. To see people who literally have to rock from side to side as they lumber between the parking lot and the supermarket is pathetic. They're trapped within their own bodies: they couldn't run 100 yards to save their lives. IMO, if I couldn't run, hop, skip, jump, skate, dance - whatever, I'd consider myself disabled. And that's just what this is: choosing to be disabled. Even leaving out the health risks, it's no way to live.

Needless to state, the contents of their grocery carts is a perfect match for their sizes: I can't recall the last time I've been behind a "person of size" in the store and watched while they unloaded a cart full of fruits and vegetables. It's all Coke (by the case!), snack foods, frozen prepared stuff, cookies, chips, (white) bread, packaged cereals, pasteurized process cheese products, etc., with maybe some milk, OJ, and meat/eggs thrown in. :eek:

As the saying goes, "you are what you eat." Too true.

Simon
10-31-2005, 12:31 PM
I certainly don't believe that overweight people should face discrimination in employment, etc.

While i am the most left wing, liberal you are liable to find, there are some things I find myself being rather un liberal about.

Personally I feel an employee SHOULD have the right not to employee a very obese individual for certain types of jobs.

And don't get me started on aircraft seats, I hate to sound so ungracious and unsympathethic, but if I pay for a damm plane seat, I didn't pay to share it with the person sitting next to me, it's unacceptable, and frankly I simply don't want somebody elses flesh resting on me.

Of course bring on the "that's discrimination" comments, and yes your right it is, I discriminate against very obese people paying for 1 seat but taking up 1 and half.

Frankly I think I am being discriminated against, the normal guy, I would like to pay for 1 seat but take up nearly 2 spaces , 1 for free, but I can't because I have not let myself go to the point of insanity.

Ahh crap, I really need to know when to keep stum, end of rant.

JHalstead
10-31-2005, 02:53 PM
Funny you should mention that, Simes. My wife used to work for an Airline company (I'll leave their name out of this because I just don't remember which company it was!) and their policy was that anybody who was over x many pounds had to purchase 2 seats instead of 1. Additionally, if their seat belt would not fit around them, and there were no seat-bealt extenders available, the plane could not take off with them on it.

As for complaining about the grocery store trips, I could not agree more. I was grocery shopping with my wife this weekend and she kept handing me things to check out and see if it was healthy. After the fourth or fifth item I just said and told her, "You know, we shop for food very differently. You like the middle of the store... I like the perimeter."

I've noticed that part of the self-perpetuating obesity cycle is that the ease of fixing good food does not compare with the ease of tossing a frozen box o' crap into the microwave for 3 minutes. My wife and I are both busy people, not getting home until 19:00 or later some nights (and needing to wake up before 06:00)... it is tempting to do something quick and painless those nights, and sometimes we falter and do that, but usually I try to have some steaks or chicken ready to go in the freezer that require a few minutes on the grill, or maybe some hamburger patties I've prepared earlier in the week.

Here's a related rant... why do so many very obese woman feel the need to wear shirts that show the bellys? It's not attractive. And, my brother-in-law's personal favorite was one time at the bar when a friend of ours pointed out an extremely plus size woman wearing low-rider jeans with her underwear sticking out the top of them. We weren't sure if she was wearing a thong or if it was normal size underwear worn by a woman who was far from normal size. /shudder

Simon
10-31-2005, 03:10 PM
I think it is very hard for people with long hours to keep to a decent diet, but I do think this all boils down to making pre-prepared meals in advance.

Whenever I go into serious mode with getting into shape, I find it virtually impossible to stick to it unless I am making all my food for the next 3-5 days in advance.

Chicken, beef and rice/ potatoes, and so forth all cooked in mass quantities then bunged into tupperware, then if worse comes to the worse you can stil bung it in the microwave at 19:00 but at least it was a high protein balanced, perservative free meal as opposed to some terrible prepackacked piece of crap with less protein in it than a carott.

I do feel it's a huge component of sucessful healthy living if you have to work long hours, that and home made shakes.

I know people do say the are incredibly busy and I have done lived that lifestyle but it's actually that lifestyle IMO that demands you eat well otherwise it's even more exhausting, trying to work on crappy food/fuel.

My morning shake, takes me under 2 minutes to prepare and we do it every morning, I blend it up and share it about half and half with the missus. I just don't believe anybody can't spare 120 seconds each morning for a really good breakfast.

For the record and just for the hell of it, this is what we share.

1 Small amount of water in the bottom of the blender
2. Add 2 heaped tablespoons of organic, bio culture friendly non flavoured yougourt
3. 2 TS of udos choice
4. strawberries, (about 8-10 average size)
5. handful of rasberries.

BLEND

STOP Blender, then add
1 whole banana
60 grams of whey protein, vanilla flavour.

Wham that down you, and I don't think you can do much better nutrionally and even including taking everything out of the fridge and blending it and pouring it into 2 glasses, I still can do it in about 2 minutes on the button.

It is bloody hard for those with long hours and kids etc to eat right but it#s not impossible by a long shot.

As far as obese men, and women wearing clothes 5 times to small, again.. don't get me started. Even friends of mine who are just overweight are still trying to kid themselves that because they can physically pull a pair of jeans on with a 34" waist that that's their waist measurement..

The fact that around 15" of flab is now compressed (quite unhealthy btw) around their gut seems to mean nothing to them.

I do try to be subtle with them, stuff like" chirst mate, your way to fat for those jeans" and other such caring phrases, but typically I get a two fingered responce or verbal drivel along the lines of "They do sort-of fit and I don't want to buy bigger because I'm going to lose weight soon"

Yeah, sure you are Dave, didn't you tell me the same story back in 2002 !

elissalowe
10-31-2005, 03:17 PM
...Here's a related rant... why do so many very obese woman feel the need to wear shirts that show the bellys? It's not attractive. And, my brother-in-law's personal favorite was one time at the bar when a friend of ours pointed out an extremely plus size woman wearing low-rider jeans with her underwear sticking out the top of them. We weren't sure if she was wearing a thong or if it was normal size underwear worn by a woman who was far from normal size. /shudder
That's the popular style...and since so many people are overweight, they're not embarrassed to let it all hang out.

I dislike the styles myself, even though I can wear them. But they're impractical - you can't bend over without mooning people. And while some may enjoy the view - it's annoying. I'm no prude, and I don't mind flashing some skin every now and then, but I don't want to be constantly readjusting my clothes everytime I move. Plus, the "aging hooker" look doesn't really suit me... :D

I typically buy a lot of my "everyday" clothes in the boys' department: the stuff fits, it's comfortable, doesn't come in obnoxious colors (like chartreuse and orchid), or annoying materials (spandex and polyester).

Simon
10-31-2005, 03:28 PM
LOL 'aging hooker' , that summed it up perfectly, I can see the kind now.

plague
10-31-2005, 05:16 PM
I'm no prude, and I don't mind flashing some skin every now and then,

YAYY!! :cool:

elissalowe
10-31-2005, 07:29 PM
YAYY!! :cool:
;) ;) ;) ;)

JHalstead
10-31-2005, 08:19 PM
Plus, the "aging hooker" look doesn't really suit me... :D


LMAO! From the pics you've got on here, you'd need a lot more make-up to dress up like that on Halloween.

elissalowe
10-31-2005, 10:13 PM
LMAO! From the pics you've got on here, you'd need a lot more make-up to dress up like that on Halloween.
Well, I could do that: but it would be bad for my skin, I'd scare the dog, and I don't need the extra candy anyway. :D

splifford969
10-31-2005, 10:19 PM
Haha, thanks for the laughs all, but it's lunch time and I'm off to make some Salmon Nicoise, have a good one :)