PDA

View Full Version : Patrick Arnold is the latest victim of this vicious witch hunt



erp7e
11-04-2005, 04:45 AM
Since Pat is a friend of Will as well as many in the industry, this comes as sad and upsetting news to many of us. I do not know the man personally, but I admire and respect the enormous role he has had in trying to improve sports supplementation within the boundries of the law. Unfortunately our government is engaging in retroactive lawmaking in order to placate the public into thinking they are addressing the 'drug problem' in sports. As the NYT article posted by Will astutely pointed out, they will blame everyone but the actual athletes taking the substances.

Story:

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5050912

WillBrink
11-04-2005, 03:32 PM
Since Pat is a friend of Will as well as many in the industry, this comes as sad and upsetting news to many of us. I do not know the man personally, but I admire and respect the enormous role he has had in trying to improve sports supplementation within the boundries of the law. Unfortunately our government is engaging in retroactive lawmaking in order to placate the public into thinking they are addressing the 'drug problem' in sports. As the NYT article posted by Will astutely pointed out, they will blame everyone but the actual athletes taking the substances.

Story:

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5050912

I have not talked to Pat about it yet, but they look like pretty lame charges that will come to nothing, other then to get media attention and cost Pat $$$$. Best line from the article:

"U.S. Attorney Kevin Ryan said the indictments mean the government has "taken another important step in the ongoing effort to eliminate the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in sports."

If that's their version of an 'important step' I would hate to see what they consider a big waste of time and tax payer money.

erp7e
11-05-2005, 11:23 PM
Unfortunately this is very political and there is widespread public opinion that people like Pat are personally bending over 9-year-old boys in the school yard and shoving growth hormone in their asses. The amount of misinformation and paranoia in some ways dictates government officials that wish to be reelected to 'act' on this, however stupid the act. It's funny because I hear some people complain about 'the liberal media' yet the major networks promote this anti-drug/supplement/nutrition propoganda heavily.

elissalowe
11-06-2005, 04:51 PM
Unfortunately this is very political and there is widespread public opinion that people like Pat are personally bending over 9-year-old boys in the school yard and shoving growth hormone in their asses. The amount of misinformation and paranoia in some ways dictates government officials that wish to be reelected to 'act' on this, however stupid the act. It's funny because I hear some people complain about 'the liberal media' yet the major networks promote this anti-drug/supplement/nutrition propoganda heavily.
The curious thing about it is that these "concerns" are mostly confined to the media. For all the pretense about keeping performance-enhancing supps out of the hands of young people, this isn't reflected in school anti-drug education. I've questioned both of my kids on the subject - AAS and/or sports supps haven't been discussed at all in their schools. All my kids know about it is what I've taught them. IMO, this just underscores the hypocrisy - if the powers-that-be were so damn concerned with the welfare of children, you'd think educating them on the risks would be a number one priority.

WillBrink
11-06-2005, 04:58 PM
The curious thing about it is that these "concerns" are mostly confined to the media. For all the pretense about keeping performance-enhancing supps out of the hands of young people, this isn't reflected in school anti-drug education. I've questioned both of my kids on the subject - AAS and/or sports supps haven't been discussed at all in their schools. All my kids know about it is what I've taught them. IMO, this just underscores the hypocrisy - if the powers-that-be were so damn concerned with the welfare of children, you'd think educating them on the risks would be a number one priority.

Oh no, they're too busy trying to force techers to accept ID as science and a legit competing theory to evolution. They have no time to teach kids about drugs and sex other then to say "just say no" If I had kids, I would lose my mind over this stuff.

elissalowe
11-06-2005, 05:53 PM
Oh no, they're too busy trying to force techers to accept ID as science and a legit competing theory to evolution. They have no time to teach kids about drugs and sex other then to say "just say no" If I had kids, I would lose my mind over this stuff.
LOL, it's all too true - for the most part. But it's not entirely the fault of the schools. School districts often find that their hands are tied by parents who are all too willing to file lawsuits and create trouble when any discussion moves into "controversial" territory. Dealing with these people soaks up a lot of time, energy, and $$$. "Just say no" is a way of playing it safe.

Looking into the mindset of some parents is a bizarre experience. For example, at my kids' old elementary school, there was a program known as "The Birthday Book Club," where families could donate a book to the school library on their kids' birthdays. I designed a fancy certificate for the program, and added notices to the school web site (which I designed and maintained) as well as the school newspaper (which I edited...*sigh*). So it was a big deal for the kids, and the library got extra books that they otherwise didn't have the budget for.

So one of the students, whose mom was an RN, contributed a beautifully illustrated Dorling-Kindersley book on human anatomy to the library on her birthday. It was removed from the shelves less than 2 weeks later after a parent complained: there was a single page on urogenital anatomy with an illustration of a cross-section of a penis. The parent involved couldn't handle having her daughter know that such unmentionable organs existed, even though there was no discussion of sex in the book. I tried to convince the librarian and the principal to keep the book, but it was useless: someone was willing to make a stink about it, so it had to go.

On another occasion, I was actually scolded by a mother for allowing my daughter to buy a copy of "The Adventures of Captain Underpants" at the school book fair: she let me know that she wouldnt want her daughter reading about underwear! She was as serious as a stroke, and I had all I could do to keep from laughing out loud in her face.

When faced with confrontational parents, analysis and nuance go out the window. The idea is to impose a rigid, black-white ideal, rather than encourage critical thought. What the schools have failed to understand up till now, is that they're dealing with hyper-moralistic nutjobs and fanatics, and that appeasement has encouraged them to demand even more. Thus, ID and creation "science" - they're simply another front that's been opened up in the "War on Thinking."

JHalstead
11-06-2005, 06:31 PM
Wow. I'd be unable to see discretion as being the better part of valor had it been me in your shoes. Then there's the problem that my feet probably wouldn't fit in your shoes. Then there's what would happen to me if my wife found me wearing your shoes... not to mention the ridicule from friends, family, and co-workers.

Where'd this latest ramptant run on ID come from, anyhow? Here I thought it was fading away as people were growing a little more open minded and accepting? Or has the current regime in the White House been gaining steam more than I thought?

elissalowe
11-06-2005, 06:57 PM
Wow. I'd be unable to see discretion as being the better part of valor had it been me in your shoes. Then there's the problem that my feet probably wouldn't fit in your shoes. Then there's what would happen to me if my wife found me wearing your shoes... not to mention the ridicule from friends, family, and co-workers.

Where'd this latest ramptant run on ID come from, anyhow? Here I thought it was fading away as people were growing a little more open minded and accepting? Or has the current regime in the White House been gaining steam more than I thought?
Where've you been? ID's won a partial victory here in Ohio: the 10th grade biology standards go out of their way to encourage students to "explore" controversies and consider alternatives to evolution. It's pretty safe to say that this approach isn't being championed for other subjects in the name of "academic freedom". You would hear the sound of heads exploding from sea to shining sea if - for example - K - 12 students were encouraged to propose and defend "alternatives" to capitalism.

See http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/evolution.html for a relatively recent (10/04) account.

The reaction from your wife, friends, family, or co-workers pales besides mine: I'd be pissed if I caught you wearing my shoes... :D

erp7e
11-08-2005, 03:31 AM
It's easy for me to brush off some of these things as ignorant people now (geez, the 'underpants' thing...do I sound like a chauvanist pig if I say that woman REALLY needs to get laid), but I know this will take on more critical and personal importance to me when Hannah (and other kids, should I have them) starts school. If they ever start throwing ID into her school's curriculum I will go absolutely apeshit.

elissalowe
11-08-2005, 04:15 AM
It's easy for me to brush off some of these things as ignorant people now (geez, the 'underpants' thing...do I sound like a chauvanist pig if I say that woman REALLY needs to get laid), but I know this will take on more critical and personal importance to me when Hannah (and other kids, should I have them) starts school. If they ever start throwing ID into her school's curriculum I will go absolutely apeshit.
Ha-ha: agree about the mom involved. Nice woman - but very strait-laced and ot-nay oo-tay ight-bray.

Going from Pat Arnold's legal problems to ID in the schools is a stretch, but there are common features: it's about using kids as a vehicle for imposing a phony morality. For certain people, morality isn't about being kind or generous; it doesn't involve teaching respect for others, or compassion, wisdom, or fairness. It's about keeping your legs crossed at the ankles and being holier than thou. It's about instilling obedience to authority via the use of fear. So "Just Say No" programs, subverting science to insert Christianity into the curriculum, whipping up hysteria and criminalizing drug/supp use are all different manifestations of the same basic mindset. And a very narrow one at that.

erp7e
11-09-2005, 04:48 AM
Amen to that. I feel a strong responsibility as a parent not to tell my daughter to disbelieve those people, but to create an environment under which she develops the self-confidence and capacity to evaluate these things and come to her own conclusions. My parents did that for me. Sadly some of my peers did not receive this type of nurturing, since so many Gen-X'ers/Y'ers have difficulty making their own decisions about these issues, or are just in general apathetic. All I can do is pay it forward and make sure she is better than that.

elissalowe
11-09-2005, 05:26 AM
Amen to that. I feel a strong responsibility as a parent not to tell my daughter to disbelieve those people, but to create an environment under which she develops the self-confidence and capacity to evaluate these things and come to her own conclusions. My parents did that for me. Sadly some of my peers did not receive this type of nurturing, since so many Gen-X'ers/Y'ers have difficulty making their own decisions about these issues, or are just in general apathetic. All I can do is pay it forward and make sure she is better than that.
ROFL: Oh I have no problem whatsoever telling my kids to disbelieve those people. You need to model the process of drawing conclusions...by drawing conclusions. But it should be a transparent process: I'm always happy to discuss the reasons underlying my judgements. I don't talk down to them, insult their intelligence, or tell them they're not old enough to understand something...if I can't explain why I feel the way I do about an issue, then it's time for me to rethink my position. And they're completely free to challenge me and ask questions. They're not required to believe as I do.

There's a difference between being authoritative and authoritarian. ;)

ray2nite
11-09-2005, 09:36 PM
ROFL: Oh I have no problem whatsoever telling my kids to disbelieve those people. You need to model the process of drawing conclusions...by drawing conclusions. But it should be a transparent process: I'm always happy to discuss the reasons underlying my judgements. I don't talk down to them, insult their intelligence, or tell them they're not old enough to understand something...if I can't explain why I feel the way I do about an issue, then it's time for me to rethink my position. And they're completely free to challenge me and ask questions. They're not required to believe as I do.

There's a difference between being authoritative and authoritarian. ;)

My mother was a bet ahead of her time, as well. She always talked to us kids like we were adults and always encouraged us to have our own opinions and make our own choices. :p

Unfortunately, our government does not feel the same way. :confused:

erp7e
11-11-2005, 04:53 AM
The problem is I know I am very straightforward and will say what I feel, so I suppose as a new parent I am cognizent of this and don't want to slip into the authoritarian realm. ;)

Ray, unfortunately 'opinion' has become a four-letter word in our current state of affairs here.