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tapout23
09-12-2003, 09:58 PM
I have a general question to anyone that has feedback on the issue of personal training. I have been a personal trainer for 2 years now and would like to take my training to the next level. By level I mean the Charles Poliquin standard of training. Does anyone know how one might take the steps to achieve that level of training. Is it tons of school or is it a question of attaining several cerifications. I am really lost on this topic.:confused: :confused:

Simon
09-13-2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by tapout23
I have a general question to anyone that has feedback on the issue of personal training. I have been a personal trainer for 2 years now and would like to take my training to the next level. By level I mean the Charles Poliquin standard of training. Does anyone know how one might take the steps to achieve that level of training. Is it tons of school or is it a question of attaining several cerifications. I am really lost on this topic.:confused: :confused:

Well Charles Poliquin is considered one of the top 5 probably strength trainers on the planet, so to get to his level is probably unrealistic but not impossible.

It's going to be more a case of 2 decades of training high level athlethes, hundreds of success cases, creating your own doctine, ie the Poliqunin Principles etc.

I don't think there is as such a 'way of getting to his level' , his level as come about with the success he has had with major level athlethes, that came from continual real world study and formulating his own therioes etc.


SIMES

John Sullivan
09-29-2003, 01:55 PM
Ooops, got here a little late! I saw Charles this past weekend and talked with him about training and diet, and stufff. It's a little scary what he knows To get to that level, you would likely have to:
1) Have 20+ years of practical experience
2) Have an advanced degree
3) Research constantly. As in, ALL THE TIME
4) Be absurdly driven.
5) Link up with other top experts and gain new ideas.

dgill888
09-29-2003, 06:06 PM
Wow, you met THE man! I definitely envy you sully. Was he at that fascial stretching seminar you'd mentioned in another thread? I may have to make Poliquin's website my homepage, so I don't miss out on anything like that ever again.

Actually, that might be an idea for another great thread: One where people can get a list as to when big events like that are going to be happening. Just an idea. Have a good one everybody.
-Dan

John Sullivan
09-29-2003, 06:08 PM
Yeah, it was at the seminar.

sstewart81
01-14-2004, 06:14 AM
I guess this is the proper place to post this.

I had been looking into getting certified as a personal trainer. Originally, I was looking at the Certified Fitness Trainer certification through ISSA. After talking with a couple of head trainers at the local gyms, they said that they would like someone with an A.C.E. certification. Isn't that more of a, for lack of a better term, general purpose certification? Does anyone have any recommendations?

WillBrink
01-14-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by sstewart81
I guess this is the proper place to post this.

I had been looking into getting certified as a personal trainer. Originally, I was looking at the Certified Fitness Trainer certification through ISSA. After talking with a couple of head trainers at the local gyms, they said that they would like someone with an A.C.E. certification. Isn't that more of a, for lack of a better term, general purpose certification? Does anyone have any recommendations?

A.C.E is better known, so for work reasons (assuming you want to work as a trainer) then it's probbably best to go with what gym owners know of. If you have a 4 year degree, than go for something better, such as the CSCS by the NSCA. Like most professions, the more "letters" after your name the better, so several certs by different orgs would be best, though none of them will make you a good trainer BTW.

mcs953
04-19-2004, 10:16 PM
Are you implying that experience is the only thing that would make one a good trainer?

Thanks.

erp7e
04-27-2004, 11:38 PM
Not sure who "you" is directed towards?

Practical experience is certainly one important element in the quest to becoming an elite trainer or strength coach. Not the only thing (did anyone say that?). As mentioned previously, education, research, and constant involvement and discussion with others in the field are also among the important elements.

Jsmith24
08-09-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by mcs953
Are you implying that experience is the only thing that would make one a good trainer?

Thanks.


yes, experience and general knowledge. I have been a personal trainer for a few weeks and i've already seen this. In the first few clinets I trained I had no idea, but I went and researched even more online( i research and read all the time) and just spending hours in the gym watching others trainers has made me so much more better

For anyone in the knows-I'm about to be NASM sports certfied, I've looked in CSCS, shoudl i also get CSCS so will be NASm sport certfied be enough?

erp7e
08-10-2004, 12:38 AM
NASM does not have a strong reputation. Among the many certifying organizations, I would recommend getting certification from the NSCA, which is generally regarded as much more reputable. And yes, I'd get the CSCS and not just the personal training certification. It separates you from the vast sea of personal trainers.

Jsmith24
08-10-2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by erp7e
NASM does not have a strong reputation. Among the many certifying organizations, I would recommend getting certification from the NSCA, which is generally regarded as much more reputable. And yes, I'd get the CSCS and not just the personal training certification. It separates you from the vast sea of personal trainers.


NASM doesn't have a strong rep? that's the complete opposite of what I've heard. Alot of fitness chains require a NASM

erp7e
08-11-2004, 03:52 PM
It depends what you want to do. If you ever hope to be a strength coach for a D-1 or pro team, being an NSCA CSCS (and tons of experience, knowing the right people, good recs, etc.) will greatly improve your chances. And if club-level personal training is more your goal, even if health clubs don't require it, I think the NSCA education is far superior. The text for the CSCS exam is Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning, which I think is quite good. I don't know what the NASM uses.

I'd be quite surprised if a NSCA certification would get you rejected by a health club to simply personal train; that in and of itself might make you question the health club.

Nearly all those I've met who are certified by the NSCA are reasonably knowledgable, and many are extremely good. I can't say the same so uniformly for any other strength and conditioning certifiying body right now.

I suppose since the title of this thread is "personal training at the next level," and the original poster wanted to know how to essentially have a chance at someday being "on Poliquin's level," I was thinking more along the lines of striving for the best credentials, rather than fitting minimum requirements.

Jsmith24
08-11-2004, 07:40 PM
i'd get NCSA as soon as i could except you actually have to go to a test site and take the test, that sucks. NASM allows you to do on-line testing and ISSA let's you mail the test in

erp7e
08-11-2004, 08:05 PM
That is definitely a hassle, but I think it's worth it. And I can relate...

Consider that I have to pay roughly $500 and travel to a test site for *each* of my three USMLE steps, *plus* pay nearly $1000 and travel to one of only five sites in the country (I'm going to Atlanta from Charlottesville, but some people have to go farther) to take the clinical skills exam.

WillBrink
08-11-2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by erp7e
It depends what you want to do. If you ever hope to be a strength coach for a D-1 or pro team, being an NSCA CSCS (and tons of experience, knowing the right people, good recs, etc.) will greatly improve your chances. And if club-level personal training is more your goal, even if health clubs don't require it, I think the NSCA education is far superior. The text for the CSCS exam is Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning, which I think is quite good. I don't know what the NASM uses.

I'd be quite surprised if a NSCA certification would get you rejected by a health club to simply personal train; that in and of itself might make you question the health club.

Nearly all those I've met who are certified by the NSCA are reasonably knowledgable, and many are extremely good. I can't say the same so uniformly for any other strength and conditioning certifiying body right now.

I suppose since the title of this thread is "personal training at the next level," and the original poster wanted to know how to essentially have a chance at someday being "on Poliquin's level," I was thinking more along the lines of striving for the best credentials, rather than fitting minimum requirements.


The CSCS requires a 4 year degree to even take the test unlike the others certs, which is another reason it's looked on as a higher cert.

Jsmith24
08-12-2004, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by WillBrink
The CSCS requires a 4 year degree to even take the test unlike the others certs, which is another reason it's looked on as a higher cert.


ok now you bring up a good point, a 4 year degree in what though? Anything or does it have to be exercise related? i have a marketing degree and I'm considering taking it

torelli
08-12-2004, 04:41 AM
I know for ACSM which is similar to NSCA's CSCS the degree has to be in an exercise related field.

You can call them though, I am currently working on my CSCS and they are really helpful and do make exceptions.

You can find their info on the website just google search NSCA

erp7e
08-12-2004, 05:17 PM
A four-year degree in an exercise-related discipline will also contribute to your being a better trainer in the long run, and if it's a good program, will help you better evaluate the training literature for life. Much of what I learned during my exercise science B.S. degree will be out of date in several years, however the essential fundamentals of exercise biomechanics and physiology, as well as the skills I learned for evaluating and performing research, will help me forever.

If you already have a B.S. or B.A. (or B.B.A.?), you could probably go back to school for less than 2 years (already have your lower-div pre-reqs). I think it's worth it. Get educated as much as you can while you're young. Again, I refer you to the title of the thread...the vast majority want the easiest path, but if you want to increase your chances of being great at what you do, then do the more difficult path and be better for it.

Jsmith24
08-12-2004, 05:34 PM
i want to be a better trainer, but I want my CSCS. There web-site doesn't go into detail about their requirements about the 4 year degree

erp7e
08-12-2004, 07:56 PM
For one thing, you'll have a much better chance of aceing the CSCS exam with a degree in an exercise-related field...as well as be a better trainer. Unless you've done extensive reading and research in motor learning and control, exercise physiology, biomechanics, human anatomy, kinesiology, care and prevention of basic athletic injuries, biochemistry, and research methods on your own time, I think it's something to consider. The CSCS is well-respected among people in the athletic and medical fields for a reason; it's not as easy to get as most "training" certifications.

I think if you surveyed 100 gym-goers and asked them if they would prefer a trainer with at least a four-year degree in an exercise-related field, I'm sure you know what the majority of answers would be.

Jsmith24
08-12-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by erp7e
For one thing, you'll have a much better chance of aceing the CSCS exam with a degree in an exercise-related field...as well as be a better trainer. Unless you've done extensive reading and research in motor learning and control, exercise physiology, biomechanics, human anatomy, kinesiology, care and prevention of basic athletic injuries, biochemistry, and research methods on your own time, I think it's something to consider. The CSCS is well-respected among people in the athletic and medical fields for a reason; it's not as easy to get as most "training" certifications.

I think if you surveyed 100 gym-goers and asked them if they would prefer a trainer with at least a four-year degree in an exercise-related field, I'm sure you know what the majority of answers would be.


i'm not disagreeing with you at all, i'm trying to find out as much as I can about it. I'm strongly considering taking the test. obviously not everyone who takes or have a CSCS has a degree in an exercise related field. While the CSCS is a hard test, harder then the rest it can't be impossible

erp7e
08-13-2004, 05:01 PM
Definitely give them a call and see what their requirements are. The CSCS is far from an impossible test (I've taken the practice ones), I was just implying that formally educating yourself in exercise physiology and related disciplines could possibly make the test studying process a little smoother, as well as possibly make you a better trainer.

Again...title of the thread is "training at the next level," people seeking how to be the best possible trainer they can be, not just "how to be a competent and certified trainer." There certainly are some great trainers out there with no formal education in the exercise sciences. But my point is, for *best* results, getting some education in an exercise-related field may be a good idea.

As an analogy, another poster once said something along the lines of, "Will Brink doesn't have a Ph.D., therefore I don't need one either to be a nutrition guru." Maybe so, but why take your chances? Will agreed that getting all the formal education you can would augment your overall prospects, although there's many other factors involved.

sbro
11-11-2004, 08:53 PM
For the amount of money you will make working as a trainer at the"local gym" a four year degree could be put to better use elsewhere other than training novices and housewives.Personal training has become pretty pathetic someone can get their certificate in 36 hour courses and work at any of the reputable gyms here in Ontario.You are the whore for the gym and they don't care if you have a degree and ten letters after your name or a weekend certification as long as the client is paying their $60.00-80.00 an hour the club will keep 50 -75% depending on experience and if you don't like it trainers here are a dime a dozen some other (usually young inexperienced kid) will be more than happy to train for that cut because it beats working at a the juice bar,cleaning the bathrooms or folding towels.The high cost to go to school to come out 4 years later and make 20-25 bucks an hour(canadian)tops at a gym where their is no gurantee of clients 8 hours a day 5 days a week and you usually sell memberships or training packages when not training,its not worth it unless you can do home clients or work in other fascilities like private social clubs,sports teams etc.Keep this in mind because training can turn into a very part time gig if you do not make the money or have the clients.

Jsmith24
11-11-2004, 10:02 PM
Since the title is "training at the next level" What are some, if any, in-home train advanced certifications. I looked at charles Poliqun's and Paul checks website and neither have in-home. I currently have my pt cert and am very soon getting a nutrition and sports cert, anything else you guys can recommend?

sbro
11-12-2004, 12:21 AM
In home is having your client base do their sessions at their place,usually these folks are quite wealthy and have no problem paying top dollar for a trainer to do private sessions"in home".If you want to work fulltime as a trainer at the club level, in home training and maybe even open your own training centre you really do not need a whole ton of certificates you need a reputable certification ie(ACE) lots of knowledge but most of all personality, looks and a great body sure helps as well,most people will pay money for training to someone who is in shape and has an upbeat personality a "people person" than someone who has degrees and certifications and no personality you will never re-new your clients which means less money for you, its about selling yourself not so much your certifications at the club level.To train elite athletes ,sure that is where you need the degrees and lots of certifications etc but those jobs really are hard to get ,but if that is your goal phone professional sports teams strenghth coaches and model what they did find out everything you need to know to go in that direction.

Jsmith24
11-13-2004, 09:24 PM
Since the title is "training at the next level" What are some, if any, in-home train advanced certifications. I looked at charles Poliqun's and Paul checks website and neither have in-home. I currently have my pt cert and am very soon getting a nutrition and sports cert, anything else you guys can recommend?



bump

erp7e
11-14-2004, 08:42 PM
I hope I'm understanding your question correctly: By "in-home," are you saying you wouldn't be required to go to their physical site for certification? Being a great trainer takes more than book knowledge, which is why, for example, Poliquin requires that some observation of your skills are necessary for his certifications. Such certifications are of questionable value, though. They cost a ton of cash, aren't widely or universally recognized, and aren't necessary to become a succesful strength coach.

Jsmith24
11-15-2004, 03:16 PM
I hope I'm understanding your question correctly: By "in-home," are you saying you wouldn't be required to go to their physical site for certification? Being a great trainer takes more than book knowledge, which is why, for example, Poliquin requires that some observation of your skills are necessary for his certifications. Such certifications are of questionable value, though. They cost a ton of cash, aren't widely or universally recognized, and aren't necessary to become a succesful strength coach.

I defaintly understand what you mean about in-hom enot being as good as site testing. And I plan to test for my CSCS and I will travel for that, though I'd like to get other cert's that are advanced in home. Check does offer some in-home do you know of some other good in-homes?

erp7e
11-15-2004, 09:59 PM
Ian King may have one. A lot of these certs are just not well-recognized. Other certs may help your knowledge base more than your resume.

Really if you have a CSCS and the right amount of dedication and drive, nothing is going to stop you from being a top strength coach or trainer. As I mentioned, I think most of these certs that are put out by gurus are vastly overrated; they cost a ton and almost nobody who looks at your job application cares. It's far better to get a master's in exercise phys or similar, for example.

Jsmith24
11-16-2004, 03:19 PM
Who's Ian King?

erp7e
11-18-2004, 03:08 AM
Ian King's an Australian strength coach. He's written for t-mag for a few years now. His website is www . kingsports . net .

Alex Schindler
05-26-2013, 06:07 AM
So, I was just looking at an NCSF practice certification exam. I got two wrong out of like 25; you need 62% to pass. it's a 150 question multiple choice test at a convenient computer exam location, costs 250 dollars.

I can't imagine it's that educational a certification to get/study for, because while I know more than the average bear or even chimpanzee about training, I wouldn't consider myself ready to start it professionally without some more hands-on study. So that practice exam should not have been so bloody easy. One thing that works to my advantage is they seem to focus more on theory than on practice, which means if I happen to know the names of lots of muscles and bones and am up on anatomical and physiological jargon, I've got like half the test covered. If I have basic understanding of what muscles move what bones over what joints in what direction and what that type of motion is called, and some formulas or heuristics about 1RM testing and nutritional requirements, I'm golden.

How does ANY personal training certification not include a 'practical'? if my EMT exam hadn't required me to actually set a splint or demonstrate competence at CPR or use of a bag-valve mask, but just asked multiple choice questions about how to do it, I would never dial 911 in case of emergency. It's weird to me that any certification exams don't require you to demonstrate competence in various lifts, point out errors of real people doing them (or faking problems)...

So with all that said, does anyone know if this certification is marketable? It seems like the ACE and NASM are similar in format, so my complaints about the lack of "practical" don't seem to bother most of the world. And the fact that I can spend 250 on getting certified and then continue my education independently of some overpriced course, and eventually look for clients as a part-time gig, is pretty appealing. But is the NCSF considered more or less respectable (I live in NYC, if that matters)? My thought is that the easy exam doesn't bode well; I shouldn't be able to get over 90 percent on a personal training exam when (except in theory) I haven't mastered overhead press technique yet :).

Alternatively... how much study would a CSCS require? It may justify its cost between having much more knowledge imparted and a more respected certification. But would studying for it take very long or many hours of my day? I would ideally want to do it over the summer and have the cert for next year, since I probably won't have a terribly open schedule the following year in law school.

markus
05-31-2013, 03:01 AM
As you assumed, no certification is going to substitute for years of practical and successful experience. Even a lot of college graduates with degrees in related health and exercise fields are not ready to provide comprehensive advice to clients. In that sense, any cert is going to provide mostly some letters that you can put after your name when trying to land a job or clientele. The more certs, the more letters you can use, and many newbies might be impressed by that.

The CSCS from the NSCA is still the most highly regarded cert, and its cost depends on whether you are an NSCA member and whether you take the paper exam or an online exam (usually at an H&R Block office). The study materials can add hundreds of dollars or more to the final cost. But the amount of study required should be less for someone who has read widely in this forum and elsewhere from authoritative sources. There may be a few details in the NSCAís materials that are debatable or outdated, which is why reading those materials will give a greater chance of acing the exam. Considering your level of reading and analysis already, I doubt that it would take you more than the summer to bone up and pass the test.

Alex Schindler
05-31-2013, 03:31 AM
Thanks! I actually found that my friend has the third edition essentials of
Strength and
Conditioning (damn iPhone wants me
To
Start a new line every word. Sorry if this looks like a haiku ). So I think I'm gonna study over the summer and go for it.

iPhone touchscreen keys
Sensitive, but not too bright
Some women like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

geoff1791
09-27-2013, 12:55 AM
Late to the party on this one:

Ive had my training biz for 13 years and held several of the most popular certs.....currently all my certs are expired:)

I can count on 1 hand how many clients or potential clients asked about my certs or any credentials. Simple fact is....they don't care, they want results.

Trainers are a dime a dozen and with the mainstreaming of crossfit and all the other trendy hollywood shit, pretty much everyone is a 'trainer' these days. Ironically, 75% of trainers right now today, will not be trainers a year from now.

Its worth noting Ive serviced over 35,000 sessions and worked with
over 5,000 people.

When I began training, I was way to caught up in the cool letters I could put after my name to realize that safe efficient results and professionalism were the foundation from which to build my biz.

Find a niche, and then absorb every last bit of information you cAn as you develop your identity and methodologies.

Honestly, had I found BBR before getting certified....I never would have spent a dime on certifications.

A great starting point is to Pick a cert that will actually help you and the clients you want to help. No need for a CSCS if your goal is to work with 55 year old overweight women.

Aim small...pick a specific group of people you want to help and align yourself as the area expert and own it. It takes a crazy confidence and even ego to pull it off so get the knowledge and believe in yourself NO MATTER WHAT!

All certs will give you knowledge however, but beware many if not all are just cash grabs. In my opinion, just get one, and then get back here to BBR and hammer these forums. They are filled with coveted priceless information.

When I need help I always defer to the experts...Will, Markus and Elissa...they are the bees knees and bad ass mutha fuckas so ask questions and get answers.

Just promise us all that you'll never have your clients back squatting on physio or bosu balls!!!!

Just my .02

Geoff

markus
09-27-2013, 01:59 AM
Thanks for the input, Geoff. Since we frequently rag on the typical clueless trainer, itís informative when an experienced one gives his views.

WillBrink
09-27-2013, 05:56 PM
Late to the party on this one:

Ive had my training biz for 13 years and held several of the most popular certs.....currently all my certs are expired:)

I can count on 1 hand how many clients or potential clients asked about my certs or any credentials. Simple fact is....they don't care, they want results.

Trainers are a dime a dozen and with the mainstreaming of crossfit and all the other trendy hollywood shit, pretty much everyone is a 'trainer' these days. Ironically, 75% of trainers right now today, will not be trainers a year from now.

Its worth noting Ive serviced over 35,000 sessions and worked with
over 5,000 people.

When I began training, I was way to caught up in the cool letters I could put after my name to realize that safe efficient results and professionalism were the foundation from which to build my biz.

Find a niche, and then absorb every last bit of information you cAn as you develop your identity and methodologies.

Honestly, had I found BBR before getting certified....I never would have spent a dime on certifications.

A great starting point is to Pick a cert that will actually help you and the clients you want to help. No need for a CSCS if your goal is to work with 55 year old overweight women.

Aim small...pick a specific group of people you want to help and align yourself as the area expert and own it. It takes a crazy confidence and even ego to pull it off so get the knowledge and believe in yourself NO MATTER WHAT!

All certs will give you knowledge however, but beware many if not all are just cash grabs. In my opinion, just get one, and then get back here to BBR and hammer these forums. They are filled with coveted priceless information.

When I need help I always defer to the experts...Will, Markus and Elissa...they are the bees knees and bad ass mutha fuckas so ask questions and get answers.

Just promise us all that you'll never have your clients back squatting on physio or bosu balls!!!!

Just my .02

Geoff

Good stuff. I especially like the bold parts. :D

geoff1791
09-27-2013, 05:58 PM
There is ofcourse so much more to this topic
but it would take at minimum 3 hours with
my typing skills.

Maybe I will start a thread about 'becoming a good personal trainer'

WillBrink
09-27-2013, 06:22 PM
There is ofcourse so much more to this topic
but it would take at minimum 3 hours with
my typing skills.

Maybe I will start a thread about 'becoming a good personal trainer'

Go for it. Might be useful to people in both finding decent trainers and or being one.

adam crawford
01-27-2014, 09:28 PM
A little late on this. But this thread was extremely helpful in a lot of my questions. Thanks