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kurnia38
10-12-2003, 04:37 PM
I got couple of questions here. I'm sorry if it sounds dumb, but I'm quite overwhelmed by too much information.

First, whenever Will Brink wrote an article, there're always references at the bottom. Where does he find those references from?

Second, I've read too much ways of dieting, and now it makes me more confused than ever. How can I analyze whether the diet is faulty or not? What background do I need to be able to come to my own conclusion of what the "best" diet is?

Thanks a lot for your help.

WillBrink
10-12-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by kurnia38
I got couple of questions here. I'm sorry if it sounds dumb, but I'm quite overwhelmed by too much information.

First, whenever Will Brink wrote an article, there're always references at the bottom. Where does he find those references from?

Second, I've read too much ways of dieting, and now it makes me more confused than ever. How can I analyze whether the diet is faulty or not? What background do I need to be able to come to my own conclusion of what the "best" diet is?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Being this post is about me vs. being directed to me, I think some one else should respond to this one and I will add comments (if needed) after that.;)

Dr.Scott
10-12-2003, 08:52 PM
The footnotes are references to published studies, clinical trials, etc., so you can go look at the results yourself if you want. It's not only giving credit to the people who did the work, but it also tells you that Will isn't pulling the info out of his a**...that there is a reason for making the recommendations he is making.

Regarding diets, there is no perfect diet. If there was, there wouldn't be new diet books on the shelves every week, and Suzanne Summers would be out of business. If you're an athlete, most diets out there will starve you for protein. Personally, I feel well and lose weight rapidly on an Adkins-type reduced carbohydrate diet. Whatever diet you choose, you have to make sure you're getting sufficient protein, drinking a lot of water, workout to maintain LBM and keep the metabolism up, and burn more calories than you take in. Almost any diet will work in the short term if you follow these steps.

My suggestion is to either study nutrition, or find someone you trust, like Will, and just do what he says.

Hope this helps a little.

Simon
10-12-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by WillBrink
Being this post is about me vs. being directed to me, I think some one else should respond to this one and I will add comments (if needed) after that.;)

I think you may have a skewed understanding of why references are used.

Although it does happen, typically somebody like Will doesn't write something and then look for a reference. The articles come as a result of reading a study or trial etc and so to quantify the data in the articles he writes, he includes the references from the trials / studies etc to back up what he is saying.

RE The Best diet, lots of diets 'work' If fat loss is your primary aim as opposed to sheer muscle mass, then you should look at Will's other ebook, which is all about diet and fat loss supplemenets etc

www.aboutsupplements.com

kurnia38
10-13-2003, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by SIMES
I think you may have a skewed understanding of why references are used.

Although it does happen, typically somebody like Will doesn't write something and then look for a reference. The articles come as a result of reading a study or trial etc and so to quantify the data in the articles he writes, he includes the references from the trials / studies etc to back up what he is saying.




I understand that. What I mean is where does Will start from when he wants to write an article? Where does he dig does references from?


Originally posted by SIMES
RE The Best diet, lots of diets 'work' If fat loss is your primary aim as opposed to sheer muscle mass, then you should look at Will's other ebook, which is all about diet and fat loss supplemenets etc www.aboutsupplements.com


I have both e-books. I'm not talking about diet in terms of losing weight. I'm talking about diet in terms of gaining muscle and losing fat. I hope it makes sense... :P My actual question is... how can I come up with my own conclusion... whether this diet is worth trying... or whether that diet is not worth trying. I don't want to trust some "guru", but want to arrive at a conclusion based on my analysis. Now, the problem is I don't have the background to analyze these things... so what I'm asking is... what should I read or what should I study to make more sense of those diets? Thanks big time.

Simon
10-13-2003, 09:09 AM
My actual question is... how can I come up with my own conclusion... whether this diet is worth trying... or whether that diet is not worth trying. I don't want to trust some "guru", but want to arrive at a conclusion based on my analysis.


Now, the problem is I don't have the background to analyze these things... so what I'm asking is... what should I read or what should I study to make more sense of those diets? Thanks big time. [/B][/QUOTE]

???

If you don't want to trust Will, then go to cust services ask for a refund and that will be the end of it.

What do you mean, how do you analyze it? How about going crazy and trying it instead of talking about it?

How about the fact that Will has trained dozens of top level athlethes and bodybuilderrs and is highly respected in the industry.

What should you study? I don't know are you asking me to provide you with a list of all the reference material on nutrition out there?

There is no need to be overwhelmed. Follow the damm progam, and see for yourself

Case closed

kurnia38
10-13-2003, 01:10 PM
I guess you misinterpret my intention, Simon. My problem is not that I'm a newbie that doesn't know anything about training and nutrition and keeps thinking that he has to know everything before starting. Man... I'm kinda pissed that this thread is taking a wrong turn.

I'll post again when I know how to write what I intend to say better.

WillBrink
10-13-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by kurnia38
I guess you misinterpret my intention, Simon. My problem is not that I'm a newbie that doesn't know anything about training and nutrition and keeps thinking that he has to know everything before starting. Man... I'm kinda pissed that this thread is taking a wrong turn.

I'll post again when I know how to write what I intend to say better.

I leave you kids alone for a minute to play nice, and see what happens?!

Where do I get my references? There is no one place. Pulling studies from medical libraries is a source, though I don't go nearly as often as I used to. I have an extensive network of scientists, MDs, trainers, interested lay people, etc. that I exchange studies of interest with on a regular basis, via the net, fax, mail, etc. I see some studies mentioned in a magazine or a news group and I will go pull it if it interests me. There are many different ways that studies might come to me and i also know the researchers doing the actual research who I might talk to. Finally, there are many medical data banks one can access such as PubMed (www.pubmed.com) but that only gives you the abstracts.

How do you know which diet to follow or if the diet makes some sense or has scientific grounding? You don't. Why do you think so many diet books get sold? Cause people are so educated about nutrition? Of course not. If you spend the next 10-20 years of your life studies nutrition, biochem, physiology, biology, etc., training a few thousand people, and so on, you might start to get some real knowledge of the topic, but then again you may not as the fact is most MDs and other highly educated people don't know shit about the topic in reality. Itís complicated, thus why so many people are fooled most of the time by so many pretend experts. The more you read and research the more you will be able to start to know who is giving the good info and who is full of it, but that often takes far more time and effort than most people have. So, you are left to basically decide who you trust based on the info they have given you an the way they present it. No, I don't know everything but I know damn bit more than most pretend experts and am certainly in the short list of people that has the real world experience, educational background, and natural instinct, combined with an inability to BS people (thanx to my dear departed mother) to give advice that really works and is not pulled out of my ass to impress people but based on science. Finally, there is no doubt that some people are just naturally gifted at a thing. You can have all the education in the world and still be utterly worthless because you simply have no instinct or natural ability to see things others don't that have nothing to do with education but underlying talent for a thing. You would be amazed at the number of MD, PhDs who are total idiots. No amount of training will make you a great sprinter if you don't have the underlying talent for it. Science is really no difference.As the man said:

"Without underlying talent, learning a skill is a survival technique, not a path to glory." - Markus Buckingham.

Not to honk my own horn, but I am good at this crap. I suck at many things (spelling for example), but I have a natural instinct, or underlying talent for sniffing out the truth in human nutrition.

kurnia38
10-13-2003, 10:21 PM
Thank you, Will. You just answered all my questions... :)

Btw, Simon... I come up with this question because I read the arguments in the Nutritional Authorities section, and I couldn't understand most of the arguments. I simply want to be more knowledgeable and wonder if someone can point me to the right direction on where to start.

alanjlamore
10-18-2003, 08:21 PM
You might want to check out what classes a local college offers, or find out what kind of courses are taken by some of the best personall trainers, strength coaches and so on.

I know there's a lot of "certified personal trainers" out there who seem to know a lot less than anyone who has read and understood the ebook by Will.

I'm not saying that the ebook is the only book anyone should ever read (although I don't think it would hurt), but I'm pretty sure that by the way Will answers questions, and by the way others speak of him that he can back up everything that he sais with up-to-date scientific research.

I completely understand you frustration. There's so many people out there who are experts at playing with people's emotions and can make their product sound like it's the best thing on the market since whey protein.

Then you try it, it doesn't work and you've just wasted a whole bunch of time and money on a bunch of BS.

I've thought about being a personal trainer myself, but never knew what type of schooling I needed, then found out that you can take some very short classes online and get a certifacation. So far Will's ebook has made the most sense, even though it's a little more complicated than most.

Oh, BTW, I've also been warned that a lot of schools are out dated when it comes to nutrition, so I would assume that it might be dificult to find the best information there.

erp7e
10-19-2003, 03:02 AM
kurnia,

I'll try not to repeat too much of the good advice already given.

At first, it is normal to be overwhelmed by the plethora of information about training and nutrition. Over time, a lot of trial and error, and a lot of critical reading and thinking on your own, you'll start to see who's worth listening to and how to filter all the BS.

I would recommend that you study the ebook carefully and also read books and articles by authors like Brink, Poliquin, Staley, Ian King, Louie Simmons et al. If you're really serious about increasing your knowledge in the area, it's also probably a good idea to get a good exercise physiology textbook, a biomechanics textbook (Enoka's is great), and a good anatomy atlas (I recommend Netter's). Only after you really understand the fundamental concepts in textbooks should you start reading a lot of journal articles. PubMed provides you with the citations; you'll have to go to a college library to actually read them. Start with review articles rather than original research.

If this seems like a lot, it is. I wouldn't blame you at all to take the passive route and just follow the great advice in this ebook and others like it. I have been training about 6 or 7 years, have a bachelor's degree in exercise science, have completed two research studies of my own at major universities (unfortunately unpublished), have read everything I can on the subject during these years, and am now in my 3rd year of medical school. And I feel I am just getting started in my quest to know everything I can about exercise, nutrition, metabolism, and health.

It's really up to how passionate you are about something and how much you want to learn about it. But all that crap I mentioned is by no means a prerequisite to fantastic gains in the gym. Since you asked, it seems like you wanted to know where to look.

As far as "what works," it just takes lots of trial and error. Be sure to give a particular method an honest, sufficiently long try, and consider mitigating factors before making a judgment.

And sometimes, ya just gotta shut up and lift! :D

mdolls68
12-06-2003, 02:22 AM
Kurnia,

Ok, I'm a bit late on reading this post. Oh well. I'll give my 2 cents. I'm just a regular person, not an expert or anything. I, too, was and still am sometimes a little overwhelmed with all the information out there about how to do this or do that. By nature, I love to soak up all this information...which drives my husband nuts.

Every person is different. I agree with erp that you need to understand the fundamentals...basics about how the body works. These can be found in many published textbooks. Once you have a basic understanding of the foundation from which you're working from, then as you read various articles, you can learn from them as you dissect them.

Over the past 2 years, I've been trying various experiments on myself in terms of losing bodyfat. There are many factors that play into this, and what may work for one person may not work for another because you simply are a different person with different response system. Even in the same person, depending on what is going on, your body may have a completely different response.

I'm finding that out as in the past 2 yrs, I went from being not pregnant, to pregnant, then nursing my son. It's driving me nuts because what worked when I was not pregnant prior to pregnancy is not working now post partem. When I was pregnant, my body responded differently then. And even in the pre-pregnancy stage, as my body changed, grew stronger, leaner...I also had to adjust my exercise, diet, etc.

What I have found also that if your body adapts to what you're doing, in order to get it to have further changes at the same rate, you gotta change your routine, how you eat, etc. It's a lot of work. There's no one person that will tell you exactly everything that will fit perfectly for you. You've got to experiment and figure out what's right for you. Will has a lot of excellent advice, as do others. Try out various things they recommend. Document. The results may surprise you.

Oh, and if someone says there is a quick, easy way where there is no or little effort...don't fall for the get something for nothing scheme. There's always a price to pay. Either pay now or pay later. In the grand scheme of an entire lifetime, maybe taking a couple more years or even 10 years.....how much time is that compared to the rest of your life?

Take the information that's applicable to you and either discard or shelve the rest. Sorry for the long post.